Episode Transcript
[00:00:00] Speaker A: You know, so we've established the fact that Jesus of Nazareth really lived in the first century. He died by Roman crucifixion. And then, of course, what Christianity rests on is the resurrection.
And let's talk about some of these details.
If the tomb was not empty, they clearly should have produced the body. Correct? I mean, those guards, the Roman guards there, if somehow the body was stolen, well, they'd be killed.
[00:00:28] Speaker B: They'd be killed.
[00:00:30] Speaker A: And the women that appeared, which were the worst witnesses possible, were given the gospel to go then tell the others. And even when those women appeared to the disciples, they didn't believe him.
[00:00:42] Speaker B: They didn't believe them because they. Why would you.
[00:00:44] Speaker A: Yeah, why would you in that culture? But yet that's the story that they stuck with and that was carried forward, and yet it starts spreading. I mean, if people knew Jesus lived and had a following and then he died, they killed him, so it should end.
Why in the world would any of the people, especially in these other regions, decide, well, you know, we've got the leaders in Rome and that, and we're in the province and we're, you know, enjoying this Pax Romana and the freedom to believe or not believe or believe in pagan gods, whatever we want to do. No, let's just go ahead and be exclusive here and just adopt this wild theory of this Nazarene was somehow the promised Messiah from the Hebrew scriptures. And so now we're going to, you know, we've got a lot to lose here. Why would they do it?
[00:01:29] Speaker B: Yeah, well, again, you think to yourself, the idea of a resurrection could be so quickly squashed. You have. At the time of Passover, during the feast, depending on the historian you talk to or the archaeologist you talk to, they'll say there could have been upwards. Which is fascinating. You know how small Jerusalem is, the Old City.
The thought that there could be upwards of 25 to 40,000 people coming in for Passover, we're talking upwards of maybe 20 or 25,000 lambs that have to be slaughtered.
We're talking about good Roman records that show that there were probably somewhere around 5,000 troops stationed in Jerusalem.
5,000 Roman soldiers, plus the Temple guard, plus all those people who are just visiting.
How do you. In that small space of where Golgotha is located just outside the city walls.
How do you hide a body without somebody seeing something?
I mean, just. Even an outsider who's there just for Passover would have to at some point and say, I saw some guys carrying somebody, or where would you put the body? Where Would you take it with all those soldiers, both Jewish temple soldiers, as well as 5,000 Roman centurions?
Where would you carry it? Where would you put it? How could you hide it without somehow at least one or two or three people saying, I saw something and track it down?
[00:03:06] Speaker A: Or even being threatened with imprisonment or death for lying about it or not coming clean of where it was? And it wasn't just some obscure, you know, tomb that had been used multiple times after someone had died. This was a very prominent figure of this Joseph Ephremothea, which I guess he and Nicodemus the Pharisee, you know, from John 2 had, you know, or John 1. They bombed him. Yeah, they embalmed him and asked Pilate for the body and were given permission. And so they knew the specific tomb that it was. And it was an unused tomb in a garden. It was, some would say, fit for a king, ironically enough.
And then he's, you know, you mentioned the 5,000 lamb. You mentioned all the lambs that would be slaughtered. How many would you say?
[00:03:45] Speaker B: Well, again, there's all kinds of historians, but the one I like, that seems logical, having been in Jerusalem.
When I see some historians say there could have been upwards of 300,000 people in for Passover, I just can't even imagine. There's not enough space. But some say that conservatively, there could have been 20 to 25,000 pilgrims coming in for Passover. And that could mean upwards of 20,000 lambs having to be slaughtered for a Passover meal in and around that area.
[00:04:12] Speaker A: And you take one without blemish to appease, you know, for the sins, the atonement or whatever. And yet, as we mentioned earlier, here's when, When Jesus appears there to be baptized by his cousin John, he says, behold the Lamb of God. And yet here he is at this third Passover. The account of, after his three years of ministry with the disciples, three plus years with them here, here comes the. The Lamb of God into Jerusalem riding a donkey, if I'm not mistaken. And some would go, what? But if you were to shear a donkey, it's the animal that has a cross on its back. So he literally rides into Jerusalem on a cross, literally on the back of a donkey. And yet they think he's the victor, comes in the palm branches, the victory, all the things that are going on there. The Jews are saying, no, this is blasphemy. And yet here he is, the lamb is going to be slain once and for all. And then when that happens, you know, all the biblical accounts of, you know, he wasn't the only one that rose from the dead, that there were bodies that literally came out of their graves. Of course, they died again, but the sky went black.
The. The curtain of the temple from top to bottom, it was. I don't know how. How thick was that?
[00:05:24] Speaker B: They said about the thickness. The Talmud says about the thickness of a hand, which would be 4 to 6 inches.
[00:05:28] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:05:28] Speaker B: And it was torn from top to bottom. Gospels say so.
[00:05:31] Speaker A: Which symbolizes that now each person has direct access to God. Right. I've also heard it said that at that point, you know, God the Son enters into the holy holies as the high priest.
[00:05:45] Speaker B: Yes. Well, that's what Paul's writing about in his letter to the Hebrew Christians. He says Jesus is now our forerunner as our great high priest after Calvary beforehand. He's not. And he's our great high priest after Calvary as a forerunner. Going in behind the veil as a way to essentially say a forerunner goes in first and you follow the forerunner in. He's now saying, you will now have direct access to God as opposed to going through a priest who goes in once a year on the day of atonement and covers the sins of the people figuratively. We now have a high priest who's offered himself once for all. Gone in, is now the forerunner. He's now seated at the right hand of the Father as our high priest. And two things he's going to fulfill. One is the role of the high priest. And number two, when that ministry is done, after the church and the bridegroom have been reunited, coming back to planet Earth for the millennium kingdom, he's now done serving in essence as that the right hand of the Father is a great intercessory for us as our high priest. He's now going to come back and fulfill the Davidic covenant, which is what was told to mary In Luke 1, 30, 31 and 32, your son is going to sit on the throne of his father David, and his kingdom will be forever.
And so the idea that Jesus still has, I'd say in my database, I have about 112 passages that speak about things of the millennial kingdom after Calvary that have not been fulfilled by Jesus. And I always make the argument which I think is a good one. If all of these prophecies from the Torah, the Psalms and the prophets, the Hebrew scriptures, were so specifically fulfilled in Jesus first coming, would we not expect logically that all the ones that have not yet been fulfilled, that speak about a millennial kingdom and him ruling on David's throne, would we not expect those to also be fulfilled literally? It's a logical argument.
It's amazing to see how many scholars will say, well, okay, I'll give you that he fulfilled literally in his first coming these Old Testament prophecies. But they suddenly turn around and say, all the prophecies still to come are allegory and figurative. And the reality is, well, the other ones weren't. Why won't these also be literal? And so you say to yourself, so here's a guy who was taken, as the scripture says, even as the scapegoat is taken outside the city.
Just outside the city wall there on the west side is Golgotha. And today it's a bus depot.
If you go over there and take a look at it, it's been paved over, there's buses in there, and the wall in the back there. The last good photo was from 1920, where you can actually see the deep set eyes and the nose and what looks like a place of a skull. But there have been so many earthquakes over the centuries, it has really degraded. And today, if you. I've got a couple photos I've actually taken on my iPhone standing in the bus terminal looking at that wall, and you can see it's really been crushed in many cases. In fact, the pavement goes up to where the mouth would have been. But if that is in fact Golgotha, and there's a tomb that we're told was right nearby, and it was a new tomb in a garden.
There is a tomb there that you can go and see now. Again, the history of that is for another time.
But what you recognize is the bigger picture is that they should have been able to produce a body.
All of the Roman soldiers came and explained, it says to the religious Jewish leaders what happened. And they said, you know what?
We will cover for you guys with Pontius Pilate. Remember how they explained that? Because they're essentially going to have to say, we fell asleep on the job, we messed the whole thing up. A bunch of fishermen and ragtag guys came in, took his body right from under our noses.
And they said, we'll put in a good word for you with the Roman authorities.
It's such an interesting dialogue that goes on. Why not just produce the body and put an end to it? But they can't do that. And so what you end up with then is, okay, so if the tomb is empty, you have to have theories on what happened. And so there are probably seven theories out there. We'll just do them real Quickly. The first one was first promulgated by a guy by the name of Heinrich Paulus in the 1800s, and it was called the Swoon Theory. So Jesus passed out on the cross.
So all the narrative that they came to break his legs, but they found he was already dead. Then they put a spear right in his side. They broke the pericardium around his heart. Blood and water poured out.
You just mentioned Joseph of Arimathea and the Pharisee Nicodemus. Were told they wrapped him with about 100 pounds of embalming spices.
So while they're. While they're wrapping him, he's actually just unconscious, but they don't know it. Yeah, they haven't checked for a pulse or anything at all, but they just think. They think he's dead. So he's all wrapped up tight and put in his tomb and the stones rolled over this guy who's been beaten on his back, had his flesh ripped off, crown of thorns pressed down on him. His beard has literally been pulled out of his face. He's unrecognizable. He's been on the cross from nine in the morning, the third hour until the ninth hour, six in the, three in the afternoon.
And the blood loss that you would have on the cross, the asphyxiation, you would go through all those things.
He passed out.
The coolness of the tomb. He is revived, and somehow he's able to unwrap himself, stand up, say, hey, I'm feeling pretty good from the inside, somehow grab the stone and roll it away, and he gets out. Well, that was debunked way back in the 19th century, but a guy by the name of Hugh Schoenfeld in 1965 came out with a book called the Passover Plot. And what he did is he revived the Swoon theory, put it out there, and a whole new series of folks about 100, 120 years after it first came out, all of a sudden embraced it again.
But medical doctors time and time again will just tell you it's just folly to think that a man who went through what Jesus did in that incredible narrative could somehow be revived in a cool tomb, sit up, unwrap himself and everything. So that's One Another is the classic of the Body Snatchers, I call it. It's that somehow the ragtag Galilean guys and a couple of other Jewish guys from in and around town went over to a cohort of Romans who were. Had sealed the tomb with wax and a cord and were standing there, overpowered them, broke open the seal took the body, then claimed he was resurrected. The big question still is, what did you do with the body? Somebody would see it. The city is packed, so that also falls apart.
Then there's the old third theory, which is the wrong tomb. And so he was laid in the tomb of Joseph Arimathea. But when the Gals came, the first light on the feast of first fruits, the first day of the new week after the regular weekly Shabbat, they show up at first light and they're at the wrong tomb and the stone is away. And so they are like, oh, he's been raised.
And that again could be debunked so quickly because all you'd have to do is go back and have somebody say, oh, you were at the wrong tomb, let's go over to the right tomb. And you'd see the stone still in front. So that also doesn't hold. Then there's the fourth theory, which is a mass hallucination theory. And it's the idea that one disciple or two, in this case it would be Peter and John, who got to the tomb and saw that it was empty.
They hallucinated that they saw Jesus and then they turned around and believed it so strongly in their hallucination that others joined into this. And even modern day psychiatrists will say that a mass hallucination is almost impossible.
Hallucinations are happening to an individual, but you don't pass it on like a cough or a cold and other people pick up on it. And again, the same thing there is, if it was just a hallucination, just go back and produce the body.
The other one is that he, number five, is that he was raised spiritually, not physically.
And so the idea is his body is still in the tomb, but this holographic, there's a phantom, He's a phantom, a phantom, he's walking around and everything like that. And yet that flies right in the face of the accounts of them that say, hey, come and put your hands in my hands and touch me and feel me. And during those 40 days, as you mentioned a little while ago, when he's seen by over 500 people, are you saying that they all saw an apparition, they saw a hologram, they saw a phantasm, or, or did they actually see a real person?
And he ate food with them.
He's there at the shore of Tiberius and Sea of Galilee and he's waiting for them to come in and he has breakfast on the flames ready to go.
Again, the idea that he's just a holograph could also be again, completely dispelled by just going back to the tomb and saying, well, his physical body is here.
Two that are very closely associated. One is called the twin theory, and the other is called the impersonator look alike theory. The twin theory is that all during his lifetime, Jesus had a twin. He had a guy who looked just like him and everything like that. And when it came time to be arrested in Gethsemane, they accidentally grabbed the twin.
[00:15:13] Speaker A: The stunt double.
[00:15:14] Speaker B: The stunt double, yeah. And he goes to the cross and diesel, not only do they have to now go in and get his body, which combines now the grave robber theory, but then the real Jesus, who basically cowered away in a corner for a couple of days while his twin brother took the beating and everything, they get rid of his body without being found. Plus they overpowered the Roman soldiers and pulled him out. Now Jesus can come out and show himself and everybody's like, wow, he's resurrected.
The look alike is very similar. It's that he had somebody who Jesus actually did die, was put in the tomb. He didn't resurrect. He was put in the tomb and all. But this guy who looked like him said, this is an opportune time for me. I kind of resemble Jesus. I could actually start to promote myself as the risen Lord. Maybe the disciples will follow me and we can start this thing on my heels. But again, you go back to just go get Jesus body, go find the real Jesus. So these are interesting theories.
I feel like they're just grasping at straws, so to speak.
None of them have any substantive weight, especially from the standpoint of what crucifixion does. There are multiple. If some of your viewers go to the web, you can read very credible medical doctors who have, who aren't even believers, who have looked at Roman crucifixion and written about what happens to you during that time. And the idea that you could either A, survive it, or B, as per the narrative, come down and be put in a tomb and you're still alive and nobody knows you are while they're wrapping your body, they don't see your chest move at all or feel your pulse.
Those are just. And the idea that he could be revived to the point that he could roll the stone away and come out and present himself, just don't hold weight. So we find ourselves now we're back to what Louis called the trilemma. So many of us know what a dilemma is. It's where we can either do this or we can do that. We Have a dilemma. Two things going on. A trilemma is we got three things going on. The three things are the first two both carry underneath them very much classic, good old fashioned philosophical logic.
The logic is, let's assume in these first two cases, everything Jesus said about himself is wrong.
It's not true.
He's dying.
Yeah. So he's dead, he's buried. Everything he said about himself being Messiah, all this, it's all completely false. We know it's false, but there's two ways to view it. Either Jesus, in the first scenario, he knows it's false.
He understands it is. So that puts him in a position where he is one of the most egregious liars ever because he has completely misrepresented. He knows it's false, but he's presenting it as truth. So he's just a flat out liar.
The second scenario is everything about him is false, but the poor guy didn't know it. He was delusional. He actually thought it was true. So he's saying all these things about himself. We know it's false, but he said it about himself. So he's really lying is what he's doing.
He's delusional. Excuse me. At this point, he doesn't know that it's not true and he actually believed it, in which case you're kind of like, that's kind of sad to think that he thought he was Messiah and all. But the bottom line is he's still dead and buried.
So those first two in this trilemma, both come from the assumption underlying that everything about him is false. It's not true, he's still dead and so forth. And it's either he knew it and he's a liar, or he didn't know it and he's delusional. But in the third case in this trilemma, the only other alternative left to you is he's true and what he said is true. And if what he said is true, well, that opens up an entirely new set of ramifications of things you have to deal with. Because this Jesus didn't just say love one another. You know, it's very popular today in the social gospel just to hold on to verses about oh, love each other and be kind and these kinds of things. Kind of a Robert Schuller, modern day be happy attitudes, things like that. Norman Vincent Peale and the power of positive thinking. No, what Jesus spoke about, if you really are going to look at his narrative, is going to require you to have to make some big choices.
[00:19:31] Speaker A: So he clearly was either the best liar ever. He was crazy.
[00:19:35] Speaker B: He was crazy, or he was really the Lord.
[00:19:36] Speaker A: And I think in subsequent generations after the disciples and the other martyrs, then you get to just the opulence, the comfort, the power of one Constantine, early 4th century, the fact that he supposedly had this conversion and then Christianity became tolerated.
[00:19:56] Speaker B: Yes.
[00:19:56] Speaker A: And then the official religion, and that's now socially acceptable, Helena's mother and others are starting to erect the, you know, build these great massive churches to the glory of God. All over. Of course, naturally, what will happen is Christianity becomes a little, you know, kind of watered down.
You know, now, now you have the priestly garments and the incense and all these things are popping up. And yet you had these, the devout, you know, you know, the, the monks that are saying, no, we can't be lukewarm. And many of them flee to the desert.
[00:20:25] Speaker B: Yes.
[00:20:26] Speaker A: You know, to prepare themselves for service, to go back and reach those who, you know, and all that's going on. And I look at it as the fact that the church even still exists today is evidence.
[00:20:36] Speaker B: Yes.
[00:20:36] Speaker A: That that tomb really was empty. You know, and I remember in seminary class one time there was a guy, ironically enough, he had not been a Christian really long, but he just felt called, you know, know to go to seminary, learn the Bible. Well, maybe he'd be some type of preacher. But I remember him asking this New Testament scholar and he said, look, I'm not, not trying to be, you know, not trying to be a smart alec about it or whatever, but you know, I look in the New Testament, I'm reading this and it talks about how, you know, repent, the kingdom of heaven is near. You know, John is saying that the Baptist, you know, and, and then you've got others saying the Lord could return and all that. And he asked the professor, he said, well, come on, it's 2,000 years later, he hasn't returned.
Like, what's the deal? What's the delay? I mean, come on, are we all just believing?
Continuing, kicking the can down the road? Yeah. And I remember the teacher saying, well, I tell you what he said. For every generation of believers, including the earliest followers that became martyrs, he said the end was very near because at any moment Jesus could return.
But you're definitely going to die and stand before the Creator. So that's your choice. You don't have to believe this, but you're going to die.
And so you need to wrestle with this. And so that being the case, and this includes me, it includes all of our viewers and listeners as we wrap this up, what would you say to people that are skeptical, that really doubt all of this, even though you've provided a lot of great historical evidence and places that they can, you know, look and do for, you know, for further reading and dive into this research, but the doubt's still there.
What would you say?
[00:22:20] Speaker B: Well, it's like any other historical event that you were not alive for.
Amazingly. We'll read about the Assyrians, the Sumerians, the Egyptians. We will read about Rome, we'll read about Greece.
Great to read about Alexander.
We think about the original seven wonders of the ancient world, many of which they're not even around anymore. All we have are some sketches and some commentaries about what they were. Like the lighthouse at Alexandria. When it's described, you think to yourself, I can imagine the Colossus of Rhodes, you know, things like this. I mean, you say to yourself, those are all credible because so many people saw them and understood them and. And pass those on, the oral tradition. And ultimately, by the time you get to the first century A.D. there's a pretty strong written tradition as well. People are writing and speaking Koine Greek.
It's all throughout the Empire, along with Latin.
At any juncture, the words of Gamaliel come up, which is that this thing would just eventually peter out. Because at some point somebody would say, yeah, it just doesn't hold credibility.
But when you're circulating gospels written by eyewitnesses, you're circulating letters to churches written by an eyewitness, you're circulating comments, Peter's letters, who was with him. John's letters, who was with him.
What's happening is a very close in cohort of late 1st century, early 2nd century disciples of the original eyewitnesses are now testifying very clearly that, yeah, this happened. I met a guy who was with him for three years. I met a guy and spoke with him about this.
And they then write and have their own extra biblical accounts. And those would be what we call the Christian writers. We could have gone through everybody from Irenaeus to Tertullian and all the way down, but we didn't. We went with who are the ones outside that are not Christian.
A lot of those are just Roman writers and things, Greek writers. But interestingly enough, at any one of those junctures, any one of them could have just said, you know, this just doesn't add up.
And what you come to find is that there's now that what I would call the literary credibility that this stuff is holding the test of time.
Other attempts to put out other kinds of documents.
My favorite one to always read up on is Marcion, you know, wealthy enough to, you know, come up with his own version of things.
And the end result was people read it and they just said, this isn't. This isn't legitimate. And he was. He was done.
His heresy was immediately put down as what it was, which was that it's not legitimate. And it flies right in the face of what we know from the eyewitnesses.
And you start to see a pattern then, of continuity from the literary side. But then there's another side, and this is the one that's hard for the skeptic to handle. But the transformed lives.
People were literally transformed from the inside out and were so convinced, and the evidence was the change in their life.
That's the one that is still, in my opinion, one of the greatest forms of evidence for the transforming work of the gospel. Now, granted, it's a metaphysical concept.
There are people who say, well, I listen to Tony Robbins tapes and I'm transformed. I read L. Ron Hubbard's book and I'm transformed.
I love the work of Mary Baker Eddy, and I'm transformed. So I get that. But what you end up with, though, is that the parallel of the literary, the historical eyewitness, just credibility alongside the changed lives. And the big question, which is a very legitimate way to go, don't ever let the other side discount this. Would you be willing to hold to a false testimony to your death?
See, it's one thing to have everything's kind of up and running and you're falsely saying these things, and you're not getting any pushback from it. So, yeah, it's easy to maybe live a lie. But when you're really pressed for, would you recant your testimony or face death?
And you say, no, I'm fully convinced that kind of credibility continues. And it continues decade by decade into the third century, into the fourth. Then you have again, whether you want to put any weight on the edict of toleration and what goes on with Constantine, but he actually gets to a place where he's recognizing that Christianity, instead of being an outsider thing that's going to be persecuted, we're going to find ways to integrate it in.
And pretty soon you get to the place where you're now in the fourth century, the end of that now heading into the fifth. And it has really become a mainstay in life as we know it. And by the time the chronography of 454 is adopted, which was put together by Valentinus.
We now have some ballpark dates, and we have a calendar that's now, although it's Julian, it's still based on the life of Christ.
And going forward, the reality is that people's lives are being transformed by the Gospel and that the credibility of the underlying foundation of the eyewitnesses, the accounts, the documents, everything that's gone through is standing the test of time.
And I know critics love to argue about who chose the canon of the Scripture and all, but if you really do a good job of researching this, you'll find that at each juncture, when something was introduced as another book that should be included, there was a real quick, immediate response to the that's not legitimate. It's not an eyewitness. No one's ever heard of it before. We're not going to adopt it.
The ones that had the test of time stayed in, stayed in and stayed in. It's not as if they just went to the Council of Nicaea. And I love to hear people say, well, there was just a vote, and as long as you got a majority vote, the book got enters. That's not how it happened. What they mostly did at that was to say, what are the three or four things trying to get in to what we already know? I mean, there was accepted canon, in my opinion, from the historical record as early as the middle or even early second century. They knew what were the legitimate eyewitness books. It's not as if they had to get to Nicaea in order to have a vote, as it was the Congress or the Senate.
[00:29:02] Speaker A: They were affirming what they already knew.
[00:29:04] Speaker B: And the ones that they were meeting about were the fact that a couple things were being presented as options.
[00:29:08] Speaker A: And they were saying the Gnostic gospel.
[00:29:10] Speaker B: Yeah. And they were saying no across the board, saying no to this, no to that.
So from that standpoint, do we have a reliable Bible that's come through?
Do we have a reliable basis?
There's overwhelming evidence that we do.
And because there still has not been a production of Jesus body and where he's buried, I always love to tell people, you can go visit the tombs of all kinds of people, all kinds of religious leaders, really powerful people, and they're buried in cemeteries all over the place, from the founding of Mormons with Joseph Smith and where is Mary Baker Eddy buried? And so forth.
When you look at those things, you say, yeah, those are the differences that we see. But the bottom line is there's still this account that Jesus was resurrected and that the Gospel is all about that Particular historical fact.
And will there be skeptics? Of course there will be. There always will be.
Will a podcast of you and I discussing it have somebody completely change their mind? No, but what I hope is that your audience would recognize that there are sound, logical, practical, very thoughtful ways of looking at the material and recognizing that it does make sense that the written accounts are credible, they're from eyewitnesses, they've been time and time again challenged and accepted. And then you see the power of the gospel throughout the world.
And to think that the underlying message of this guy from Nazareth is to love your enemies, do good to those who hate you.
Compare that to other religions and other things that are all about killing others and who don't believe, or something like that.
I guess I would close with this comment is Peter, you brought this up a little while ago in his letter, recognizes that there are some mockers he says, coming, and they're starting to say things like, you know, where is his coming? Because since the days of our forefathers, it's been the same.
Nothing's really changed. But he says, but God is not to be mocked. And he's not slow like men would consider slow. If you're from an extra temporal perspective outside of time space, you're not slow in your return. In fact, he says he's patient, long suffering, he's not willing that any should perish. And so from his perspective, a day here on the planet might as well be a thousand years, and a thousand years might as well be a day. He's not creating a formula, he's simply making a hyperbole to make the point, which is that from God's perspective, he could have said a second is like a century, a century is like a minute. He could have done any of those. The point he was getting at was that, yes, in time, it feels like it's been a long time, and where's his coming?
But from the perspective of the Lord, outside of time, think of how patient, longsuffering he is. And all those who have come to a saving knowledge during the time that he's been patient and long suffering, will he eventually draw it to an end? Of course.
But the reliability of the historical Jesus, the reliability that he was born, he lived, he died by the hands of the Romans, and that there is no proof that he is still in a tomb somewhere or that he was in a tomb, but there is actually a lot of proof that he was resurrected. And as you said, up to 500 witnesses were available to testify. Yeah, I saw Jesus It's a very credible case.
[00:32:45] Speaker A: Well, it's been a fascinating conversation, and considering that we've talked much about the most influential person who's ever lived and the fact that for each one of us alive and watching or listening, our time is becoming shorter by the day.
[00:32:59] Speaker B: Absolutely.
[00:33:00] Speaker A: And it's something worth investigating and reaching a peaceful, confident conclusion based on that evidence.
[00:33:10] Speaker B: Absolutely.
[00:33:10] Speaker A: So you've done a lot of that work for us, so thank you so much, Dave. I appreciate your time. I'm going to leave in the description a couple of links to your website, as well as a particular source that you have written about this historical Jesus. So thank you very much.
[00:33:25] Speaker B: Hey, great to be with you, Tom. You, too.
[00:33:26] Speaker A: Take care.
[00:33:27] Speaker B: Thank you.
