Episode Transcript
[00:00:00] Speaker A: You know, Julie, I know you have a great family, great parents, great upbringing, and I know when you went off to college, you've mentioned in the past that you just. You felt really lonely. And I've read. I read some statistics that said that two of the loneliest segments of the American population are those entering college and those entering nursing homes.
[00:00:20] Speaker B: Oh, wow.
[00:00:20] Speaker A: Which seems so strange in some ways. The nursing homes, I get it. But college, it's where you go and you're around all these people, and it's so much fun.
Talk about that a little bit.
[00:00:28] Speaker B: I got to my freshman year at smu, and I just, by that time, was fully aware that I did not need God and that I felt like people who did were weak.
And flash forward to my junior year of college, and I just kind of walked around with this overwhelming sense of loneliness.
Just very lonely, even when I was with people. Like, I could. I could be. I could be in a room full of people, and I just felt very.
[00:01:04] Speaker A: Lonely and empty as well.
[00:01:06] Speaker B: Yes, yes.
Just. Just lonely and empty and couldn't figure out why, you know?
And so I really felt the Lord pray pursuing me.
And my parents lived, like, two hours away. And so when I would go home some weekends to visit, it was really kind of funny because, you know, that was back in the days of radio stations.
And so I'd have to look for a radio station, and I found.
[00:01:40] Speaker A: Seek or push a button or whatever. Yeah.
[00:01:42] Speaker B: And so I found that I.
I was landing on sermons.
And whereas I used to just move past them, like go find the music that I liked, I found I was lingering on the sermons, stopping and listening to these preachers on the radio. Yes. And. Yes.
But just in every facet of my life, I felt like the Lord was there and everywhere I turned. I had an internship. I interned with a lot of Christians.
And so I. One Saturday morning, I woke up my junior year of college, and I just prayed and I just said, lord, I don't think I even remember how to pray, but I remember enough about you that even this short, shoddy prayer matters to you.
And so, Lord, I want you.
And if you have to take every friend out of my life, take them all. I just want you. Take everything. I just want you.
And sure enough, he did.
I mean, he absolutely did. And we went into this sweet time together and where I really grew in my faith and got to know the God that I'd said I'd serve before and got to know exactly who he was, and he just upended my life in the most beautiful Way, like, there is a stark difference to the Julie who started SMU and then Julie who graduated from SMU and just from then on, just lived my life for him.
[00:03:42] Speaker A: Yeah. And it's so bizarre because, you know, I've known you, I guess about eight years or so, and I believe everything you've just said, like in college and what it was like. But it's hard for me to envision that, Julie, you know, and that's God's goodness, right?
[00:03:55] Speaker B: It is. It is God's goodness, God's grace.
I actually, I remember I was talking to a woman who.
She asked, she thought that my husband and I had gone to the same college. We didn't. And I kind of chuckled and I said, oh, yeah, he wouldn't have dated me in college. And she said, oh, why was he wild? And I was like, oh, no, that was me.
But it was an immediate praise to the Lord that. That she couldn't see that in me. Like, she had no frame of reference. Yeah, yeah, yeah, like that.
And that's just an immediately. Lord, you are good. Look what you do.
Look what you do in lives.
Look how you change lives. Like, I take zero credit for it, because everything I can take credit for, I royally messed up.
But when I surrendered to him, that's when everything changed.
[00:05:00] Speaker A: And I think that surrender, it's the best thing, obviously, but sometimes it's the most difficult thing because our human nature, as sinners among sinners in a fallen world, broken world, we all can look around and know that things are not as they should be.
But I think as months and years pass and there's this, I guess, the guilt, sometimes the shame, and. And I've known a lot of people our age older, and you talk to them about God's grace, the unmerited favor, you don't deserve it. You can't earn it. You can't buy it. It doesn't matter who your parents are. It doesn't matter what you've accomplished or what you've achieved in this world or how everyone views you and how none of that matters at all.
And it's literally just a free gift of grace. And I think a lot of times people look at Christians, some that maybe have been listening to this up until this morning, you know, sometimes they think, oh, you're judging me, or you think you're better than me, or I could never.
I could just never live that way.
And I think from what you've shared, you probably thought you couldn't either.
[00:06:07] Speaker B: I thought it looked awful.
[00:06:09] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:06:10] Speaker B: I thought it looked boring. I thought it looked awful.
And I talk to my kids a lot about this, about, like, the Lord is fun.
Like, he's the most fun you're ever gonna have.
But we need to have a right definition of fun.
[00:06:28] Speaker A: Yeah, yeah.
[00:06:29] Speaker B: You know, we need to have a right, you know, because things that are called fun and, you know, the things that I thought were fun and shiny were the things that were gonna bring.
[00:06:38] Speaker A: Destruction, might have been pleasurable for a moment.
Things that we're going to bring sin, right?
[00:06:42] Speaker B: Yeah. Bring chaos.
And so I talk to my kids a lot about that. Is like, hey, is your fun going to be fun tomorrow? Or is it going to bring regret? Is it going to bring chaos in your life? Is it going to bring destruction?
But God wants us.
Like, the amount of times joy is mentioned in the Bible is amazing. And he's not here to take it from us. He's here to be it.
And I just. I never understood that until I knew him. Like, really knew him, not knew his reputation, because I thought, again, it didn't seem like that was fun.
[00:07:22] Speaker A: That was fun or healthy or good or whatever. Just seemed boring.
[00:07:24] Speaker B: Yeah, absolutely. But there was definitely a shift in, like, he is the joy of my life, and it's not boring. I mean, he is the most fun I've ever had, and he puts me in the most fun situations and circumstances that I know are from him, you know, I know that are ordained by Him.
[00:07:48] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:07:49] Speaker B: Because he knows me and he puts me in specific situations.
[00:07:53] Speaker A: He knows you better than anyone else.
[00:07:54] Speaker B: Absolutely.
[00:07:55] Speaker A: And despite your flaws, cherishes you. Right.
So for the person listening or watching that, they just. That seems almost too good to be true.
Like, they can't be real. Like, come on, look what I've done. Look at how bad I've screwed it up. And what would you say to them?
[00:08:15] Speaker B: I'd say we have a lot of examples of people like Paul in the Bible.
I'm so thankful for those examples of people who have messed up, who have done so many terrible things and have been absolutely restored and redeemed.
And I'm one of them.
But that's the job he does. That's who God is.
And it is too good to be true for you to do on your own. That's the thing.
[00:08:47] Speaker A: You can't do it on your own.
[00:08:49] Speaker B: You absolutely can't.
But he is not too good to be true. He is the only thing that's true.
[00:08:57] Speaker A: The ultimate truth, all of it, all.
[00:08:59] Speaker B: Of the good things. And I'd. And. And, you know, we Think, oh, is that too good to be true? It's like, oh, you can't even scratch the surface of the goodness.
Like, you can't even scratch the surface. And so. But those are all things that I'm not sure that I ever believed until the Lord showed me himself. And I would say, if you are wondering about that, ask.
Ask the Lord to reveal himself to you.
[00:09:29] Speaker A: So just. Just pray and ask God. Say, lord, I.
I want to believe, but I'm.
[00:09:34] Speaker B: Remember that. Yeah, I write. I love words. I love great words. I love great sentences. Remember that prayer? That was not beautiful.
That. That was just desperate. Yeah, that was just a desperate moment.
[00:09:49] Speaker A: So just being honest before God. He already knows how you feel. Right? I mean, honest.
[00:09:52] Speaker B: And don't ever stop being honest with him.
[00:09:55] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:09:55] Speaker B: When, like, honest when you want him and ask and he will show you who he is. But then, even as I've been walking, I figured out that this year marks the 30th year that I've been walking with the Lord.
[00:10:13] Speaker A: Wow. 30 years.
[00:10:14] Speaker B: 30 years. But I would say even in that 30 years, never stop being honest in your prayers. He knows, anyway.
[00:10:22] Speaker A: Yeah, that's great.
[00:10:23] Speaker B: But so many times I pray like, lord, do you know I am so upset about this?
Or, lord, do you know that my heart is aching about this? I'm not going to act like it's not, because sometimes we can think when we pray, we need to clean up and we need to, oh, I've got to go before the Lord. And so I've got to have these right words, and I've got to straighten up, and I've got. And I think he's just saying no, like, lament.
[00:10:50] Speaker A: You know, it's interesting, they say about excuses, and we've all used them throughout our lives, is that, you know, your enemies really probably won't believe you or they don't really care.
And your friends, they don't really want to hear it because they're still your friends. They're your true friends.
And I think sometimes with God, you know, when we. When we pray or we think about praying, it's as if we think we have to have the right words or have it figured out or whatever. And yet, I mean, you think about the person you're closest to or the people you're close to in your life.
You can just be yourself and be honest. And have you found that to be true with God? And what does that look like for you in your prayer life?
[00:11:29] Speaker B: I think that is when I know that I'm not just going through motions with the Lord that I am being the truest. And whatever that is, is it that I'm hurt or that I'm sad? And just acknowledging that. And to him, because he knows anyway.
He knows.
But I think sometimes we think we've got to clean up for the Lord or we can't act like anything has ever disappointed us because we can't be disappointed. Because maybe it means a lack of faith or a lack of whatever.
[00:12:08] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:12:09] Speaker B: And I just. I don't think that that is the case. I think he wants to know or wants to have a conversation with us, wants to lean into our hurt.
And so it is like, lord, I'm upset or I'm angry at this.
You know, it's okay to be angry. It's okay to be sad. It's okay to. It is okay. But admit it. Like, admit it. Don't try to hide it. And I think that was something for a long time that I felt like, okay, I'm going before the Lord. It all has to be okay. And that couldn't be further from the truth.
[00:12:48] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:12:48] Speaker B: Like, he wants my true heart and he wants me to be real with him.
[00:12:57] Speaker A: And I think when you can be, when we learn to be real with God, and God already knows, I have found that it's easier than to be real with people.
[00:13:04] Speaker B: Absolutely.
[00:13:05] Speaker A: And a lot of times people, they know when you're kind of BSing them or whatever, or there's kind of. But haven't you found. I mean, you know, you talked about your background, you know, and I think for a lot of us in college or wherever, you do stupid things and you're embarrassed and rightly so. And there's the shame and the guilt, and you confess it and, you know, God forgives you, and then sometimes we just want to hide or ignore it or not acknowledge it. Like, you've been so transparent and gracious just to talk about. No, I struggled. And this was hard. Whatever. Because I think what will happen even through this, people listening, is they'll connect with that and they'll say, oh, wow. So when I first started hearing this conversation, just like when I met you, it's hard for me to envision that you struggled and you. And haven't you found that to be true?
[00:13:51] Speaker B: Yes. I mean, I think that's one of the fastest ways to connect with people is to be vulnerable.
And I think our tendency is to want to project the best part of ourself, whether it's true or not.
And really, I think a lot of people enjoy the realness of a person who doesn't have it all together and who does struggle, because everybody does.
Everybody struggles.
And I think that that is a calming factor to other people.
And when you come in and you act like you've got every answer and you don't struggle with anything, then that can be, you know, it can be great for you, but it can build a barrier between you and somebody else. And if you're somebody who does not want to have barriers between people, like, if you're somebody who, like, hey, I'm on this earth with a kingdom purpose, and I want to speak into people's lives and I want to be able to, then you're not. You're not going to want to look for ways to have a barrier and making yourself look like, you know, and Satan lies about it. I mean, he's going to tell you you need to look the part. You need to.
But that's a lie.
That's an absolute lie. And a lot of people get caught up in it.
[00:15:31] Speaker A: Yeah. And how many times have you heard people that you've just been out in public and you just. You befriend them and they know something's different about you, and then they find out you're a Christian, and they're like, oh, wow, okay. You're not like a lot of Christians I met or what I thought a Christian looks like. Because I think the reality is a lot of people have been hurt. Hurt by the church or a version of those of us trying to represent God in a faithful way in a way that just wasn't that attractive or that just wasn't even biblical.
And I think there'll be some listeners that maybe that's the case for them, and they've just been mad at the God maybe they say they didn't believe in, or just the people that were representing God in a really terrible way.
What would you say to those people?
[00:16:16] Speaker B: You know, the Lord has really done a work in my heart in the last few years just on that topic, of people who have been hurt by the church, like church abuse or Christians abusing in whatever way. People who call themselves Christians abusing.
And I really.
My heart breaks for that for them.
And what I would say is, know Jesus, beginning and end.
Know Jesus.
People disappoint you.
People will say they're Christ followers who are really performers.
[00:17:03] Speaker A: Mm.
[00:17:04] Speaker B: But Jesus will never disappoint you.
But you have to know who he is. You can't think that your pastor is Jesus or that you're following your pastor. He will disappoint he will do something that will disappoint you.
And if there's something that is more than a disappointment, it's a. A hardcore hurt, it's an abuse. And I would just say Jesus wants to speak into that, like, lean all the way into Jesus.
And it was not Jesus who did that. Even if it was somebody who said they represented him.
If it was abuse, they did not.
And I just feel like the Lord has been so clear and given me such a heart.
People who have been hurt by people who have claimed Christ, there's a lot.
[00:18:02] Speaker A: Of them out there that have been hurt.
So obviously, prayer is a way to know God, to know Jesus.
How. How else can listeners get to know Jesus better?
[00:18:14] Speaker B: Well, this may not be a favorite answer, but it's the best one I've got.
And it is. You just said praying. Absolutely. But reading your Bible, and I don't mean just opening and see.
[00:18:30] Speaker A: Sure.
[00:18:31] Speaker B: One of the things that has grown my faith and made me just fall deeper in love with Jesus is reading my Bible cover to cover.
And our church right now is going through the Bible cover to cover. And, you know, we're at the end of numbers, we're about to get into Deuteronomy.
And, you know, people in our church are like, oh, you know, I'm making.
[00:18:55] Speaker A: It through the, you know, the Old Testament.
[00:18:58] Speaker B: I love the Old Testament.
[00:18:59] Speaker A: Yeah, yeah.
[00:19:00] Speaker B: When you read it all the way through. And I can't wait for us to get into Deuteronomy, because the first time I read it all the way through, the Lord just showed me something that. That was about his character. That was so beautiful. You know, Deuteronomy, a lot of times you'll just hear, love the Lord your God with all your heart, soul, mind, and strength. And then, you know, talk about him at all times.
But what I loved about Deuteronomy was how many times the Israelites were about to go into the promised land. And God, every time he talked to him, he said, when you do this, when you go into the land I have already given you, and just over. He says it over and over and over and over. And that's his character.
[00:19:50] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:19:50] Speaker B: Like, his character is, I'm giving you good things.
Like, I've already established that. Now go walk in what I asked you to do.
And so it really is that reading every bit of the Bible and seeing God's character in it. And again, I'm going to be the first to say that at times would not have been an attractive endeavor for me. And now I can't get enough.
[00:20:14] Speaker A: Well, and how great that you're at a church that actually challenged you to read the whole Bible, not just the New Testament. And I know obviously, with. For those listeners that aren't aware, you've got the New Testament, Matthew, Mark, Luke and John. Those gospels, those are written by either eyewitnesses that two of them that walked with Jesus for, you know, three and a half years, or those that knew the ones who did. And these are. They're not just biographies, but they're testimonies.
And would you say, I mean, obviously, if someone, if you.
I love this question. Somebody said, I've had this asked of me many times. They said, okay, of course we want to read the whole Bible, but if you could only suggest one book or at least place to start, and that's all they could read for a while.
Which letter, which gospel, which. What would it be? What would you suggest? I'm just curious what you would say.
[00:21:04] Speaker B: I would say John as a gospel.
I just.
[00:21:08] Speaker A: It's my choice too.
[00:21:08] Speaker B: I know. I love John and I.
And I love that John calls himself the one that Jesus loves. The disciple Jesus loves. Sure. And I know I grew up hearing, oh, that was so boastful of him. And when I finally understood the love of Jesus, it just made me relate to John so much. It was such a beautiful thing for him to call himself. And I want to call exactly each.
[00:21:37] Speaker A: One of us, absolutely. We're the child who God loves every single person.
[00:21:42] Speaker B: But I will say, even on top of that, John 17 became my favorite chapter in the Bible. And that is Jesus longest recorded prayer. Jesus had just finished the Last Supper and there's a pause in the action. And the pause is Jesus praying out loud.
And then right after this prayer, then here come the guards and he's being taken off.
[00:22:11] Speaker A: He's going to be betrayed.
[00:22:12] Speaker B: Yeah, all that stuff happens. But there's this quiet part and Jesus prays out loud. And it's the only time in the Bible that Jesus says that he wants something.
And what he wants is you and me.
And I just can't get over that. Like, I really cannot get over it. And then he mentions us.
[00:22:40] Speaker A: He does. I know the foreshadowing.
[00:22:42] Speaker B: He mentions us in John 17. He talks specifically about the disciples. Yeah.
[00:22:48] Speaker A: Who are there listening.
[00:22:49] Speaker B: Yes.
[00:22:49] Speaker A: And then also.
[00:22:51] Speaker B: But then he says, but. And then those who will come, those who will follow, that's us.
And he's praying for us. But he just takes this time for the disciples to know that he's going to God, that he's done everything that he said he was going to do and that he prays for them and what a treasure they have been to them, and then he asks for protection for them. The whole thing, like, every sentence is just powerful.
And I've just never been able to get over it. And I know I say that a lot, like.
But there are things that you just can't get over that are so great when you walk with the Lord and seeing him love us as much as he does.
Because I never really got that. I never really understood it until I just stopped. And John 17, for a long time was in almost everything I wrote about or spoke about.
[00:23:53] Speaker A: Yeah, yeah. Hey, that's why not.
[00:23:55] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah.
So that would be one that I would say, read that and camp out there and just see what Jesus thinks about you. Because he spells it out.
[00:24:05] Speaker A: Yeah. And I think back to God's grace. And I think when people realize that God loves them and cherishes them with a love that's so much greater than anything they've ever known or could ever receive from someone else, it just. It just makes things. It puts things into perspective because you realize that really, you'll never be good enough.
And it's okay to not be okay.
[00:24:31] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:24:32] Speaker A: And it's not about what we can do, but it's about what God has done.
And I think that whole most famous verse in all of Scripture is, you know, for God so loved the world, he gave his only begotten Son, and that whoever believes in him will not perish, but have everlasting life.
And right before that, John says, and just as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, the staff, because they looked to it for healing, and what was going on at the time, Christ must be lifted up.
And then I think about our lives and what are we lifting up metaphorically, symbolically, on the walls, whatever.
[00:25:08] Speaker B: Right.
[00:25:09] Speaker A: And just in the time I've known you, and even through this conversation, I think what you've been doing for 30 years is you've been lifting up Christ.
[00:25:18] Speaker B: Thank you.
[00:25:18] Speaker A: So thanks for doing that.
